tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post7357011396336390712..comments2023-08-23T01:25:20.372+12:00Comments on Dread Times: Wanted: an independent Green PartyAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-33196187832133851862009-02-09T15:36:00.000+13:002009-02-09T15:36:00.000+13:00In other words Cameron, you support and vote for t...In other words Cameron, you support and vote for their liberal socialist policies, those being more important to you than the environment. <BR/><BR/>My point is not that these policies are incorrect, they are valid points of view. My point is that their primary focus does not appear to be the environment, so calling it the "Green" party may be somewhat misleading, especially as when socialist policies conflict with the environment the socialist ones seem to take priority (such as apparent Green Party support for <A HREF="http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/17/its-back-to-the-future-for-uk-waterways/" REL="nofollow">cabotage regulations</A> to support unions despite the fact that such policies could increase transport fuel consumption through less efficient use of shipping).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-79464278417338449902009-02-07T15:39:00.000+13:002009-02-07T15:39:00.000+13:00The main reason I vote for Greens is its good reco...The main reason I vote for Greens is its good record on standing up to attacks on civil liberties in NZ. Keith Locke does a great job opposing undemocratic laws such as the Terrorism Suppression Act and human rights abuses in NZ and around the World. Also I really appreciate Sue Bradford's work sticking up for workers. <BR/><BR/>If the Greens became a solely environmental party and stopped pushing for social justice I would find someone else to vote for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-30129161073741679932009-02-06T09:42:00.000+13:002009-02-06T09:42:00.000+13:00I think the main issue with the Green party is tha...I think the main issue with the Green party is that although outwardly an environmental party, based on their track record they have achieved far more in the way of liberal socialism (the "smacking law", gay rights etc), with the only recent environmental achievement I can think of being your own waste minimisation act - which few voters were aware of.<BR/><BR/>Now certainly many Green party voters will support liberal socialist policies. But there are many other people who wish to protect the environment (such as myself) but morally and economically are further to the right and could never support the Greens as a result.<BR/><BR/>I personally believe the Green party needs to be a bit more honest about their position. If they a deep-red-to-the-left-of-Labour hard-line socialist party that happens to like the environment, as seems to be the case at the moment, then they should be open about that, and maybe even change their name.<BR/><BR/>If they really believe the environment is the most important issue, they need to honestly move to a more centrist position on other issues - and that involves getting candidates that will actually vote that way, not just changing the rhetoric. Otherwise they will always remain "a bunch of hippies from the Coromandel" in the eyes of most voters.<BR/><BR/>As I said, there are many others who care about the environment, the Green party does not have a monopoly on that. I was the environmental spokesperson for the Family Party last election, and am completing my PhD in the environmental sciences (soil science) at the moment. I care about the environment. But I am with the Family Party because I could never support the Greens, because of their social and economic policies, and because I do not believe the Green's regulation-based approach to the environment is the most effective way of protecting it.<BR/><BR/>I currently believe the Green party gets many voters from the "I don't know who to vote for so I'll tick Green because the environment is cool" crowd - although that obviously isn't their core support, it is these votes that push them over the 5% threshold. As these voters slowly realise the Greens aren't actually achieving much for the environment, and instead are pushing liberal left-wing policies that actually go against the beliefs of some Green voters (who voted primarily because of the environment) this support may drain away.<BR/><BR/>Hopefully to ourselves, then we can achieve something real for the environment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-13482351978887803562009-02-05T20:55:00.000+13:002009-02-05T20:55:00.000+13:00Hi Green TeaVery detailed reading of the entrails....Hi Green Tea<BR/><BR/>Very detailed reading of the entrails. I think the article does raise an interesting general point about the way that success tends to lead to a professionalisation of political parties, and centralisation of power, and therefor tends to uncut the power of the membership to some degree. I would still contend that the Green Party is one of the most member driven of any parliamentary party - along with the Maori Party I suspect.<BR/><BR/>The stuff about donors influencing the party's direction is simply incorrect in my view.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-39947181317104186782009-02-05T09:52:00.000+13:002009-02-05T09:52:00.000+13:00Hi Nandor. Interesting titled post.In light of tha...Hi Nandor. Interesting titled post.<BR/><BR/>In light of that title Im wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on Bryce Edwards article about Green Party funding, found here: <BR/><BR/>http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2008/10/political-fin-1.html<BR/><BR/>This also raises questions about the need for an independant green party.Green Teahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455108847379022597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-76278611834696499282009-02-03T23:06:00.000+13:002009-02-03T23:06:00.000+13:00Hi Stephen, welcome to Dread Times.Don't mean to b...Hi Stephen, welcome to Dread Times.<BR/><BR/>Don't mean to be personal, but you've shown a little hostility and unpleasantness in your time haven't you? Not to me, but I remember a couple of meetings.... LOL<BR/><BR/>Dylan, I'm seriously worried about NZ's position in the climate change negotiations. We are a small country but I think we have influence beyond our size- I've seen this at Inter Parliamentary Union meetings. We could be a positive force at Copenhagen, but at the rate we are going we are looking more like a spoiler.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-84485050845130187452009-02-03T19:41:00.000+13:002009-02-03T19:41:00.000+13:00You mean like those people tearing down the "Vote ...You mean like those people tearing down the "Vote With Both Eyes Open" posters?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-86207437297602360942009-02-02T23:35:00.000+13:002009-02-02T23:35:00.000+13:00I hope the genuine greens do not dismiss your comm...I hope the genuine greens do not dismiss your comments Nandor. I saw in the election here in Wellington Central, just how much green influence was driven down (despite the high Green party vote) by the doctrinaire personal hostility and unpleasantness of some Green branded folk.<BR/>I felt they were clinging to their hatreds. Perhaps they'd collectively defined themselves for so long by who they hated together that they were afraid of the complexity there could be in a world without a familiar IFF (identify friend or foe) catechism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-42278676726081044952009-02-02T12:02:00.000+13:002009-02-02T12:02:00.000+13:00Besides, now we're facing 3 years with a governmen...Besides, now we're facing 3 years with a government apparently unwilling to take global warming seriously. We can't wait that long to do something - so the Greens need to engage with National now in an effort to make them see sense. Like the campaign slogan said, some things are bigger than politics...Dylan Horrockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11097135411149801403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-2054294785047454472009-01-22T10:50:00.000+13:002009-01-22T10:50:00.000+13:00Kia ora DurhamMy thinking is that relationships sh...Kia ora Durham<BR/><BR/>My thinking is that relationships should be made on policy and program. I liked the idea of creating a policy list by which to evaluate different parties and thereby create a preference order for post election negotiations. So I wasn't unhappy about saying "our preference for talking to other parties after the election, based on policy alignment, is (probably) Maori Party, then Labour, then ??? ...." The point is that National should be on the list somewhere. If a Labour Government is not viable, I think it unwise to rule out talking with National.<BR/><BR/>From a Labour point of view, they surely want us to straddle the divide so as to draw National voters and thereby enlarge the Labour / Green bloc. From a Green point of view I would have thought the most important thing is to redefine the main political duality away from 'left / right' to 'sustainable / unsustainable'. Otherwise Greens remain a clip-on party forever.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-19443220490204396582009-01-22T04:14:00.000+13:002009-01-22T04:14:00.000+13:00Valid points Nandor. Just because it has always se...Valid points Nandor. Just because it has always seemed that Labour is a natural fit for the Greens doesn't mean it has to be that way. <BR/>If they are not truly independent then they will always be in Labour's shadow and unable to do much more than split Labour's vote.<BR/>The onus is on the new leadership to reinvent themselves as more than a bunch of hippies from the Coromandel and try to bring together environmentalists from both sides of the politcal fence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com