tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post8583272490681650676..comments2023-08-23T01:25:20.372+12:00Comments on Dread Times: Is Keith's republican bill avoiding the real issue?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-37866257965575199852009-10-26T08:35:19.454+13:002009-10-26T08:35:19.454+13:00My concern with this debate is the majority of New...My concern with this debate is the majority of New Zealanders do not understand 9nor care too) the implications for the treaty relationship. While Keith has included this in the bill, it doesn't work now as those in power lack the political courage to deal with it properly. Tangata whenua would be left even further out in the edges if this country went to a republic, as the DEMOCRACY argument would rule. I believe we need to have that debate before we even look at a republic. <br />I have been watching the Tudors Nandor, not at all an educational nor even historically accurate record of the time, but extremely amusing :)<br />I agree with your point around the origins of the monarchy and support the change - but only when the above is addressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-12850190818600640352009-10-19T12:13:07.359+13:002009-10-19T12:13:07.359+13:00Kia Ora Bro,
One of the greatest difficulties in ...Kia Ora Bro,<br /><br />One of the greatest difficulties in getting this debate past the exploring of academic concepts and giving it some nation wide public credence, is the absence of a concrete answer in the form of an alternative system that will work for Aotearoa and our unique circumstances. <br /><br />I agree that there are inherent deficiencies both in principle and practice to the Monarch HoS system we have now, but like most kiwis I am saying its pretty inert regarding constitutional meddling from the Crown, and I am looking for an exact republican model that will not open itself to abuse more so, such as we see in the US system.<br /><br />I believe that size of population makes different models function better or not, and that say an adequate system of governance for a country of 120 million may be slightly dysfunctional in a country of 4 million and positively corrupt in a nation of 40 thousand. If someone can offer a model that fits our needs I would get off the fence and happily promote it, however there seems to be a lot of vague nebulous options floating out in the political ethers with no concrete kiwi solution as yet for me to feel encouraged past fine tuning what we got already.<br /><br />Aroha Nui & hugs to the Whanau.Wrexxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-79264187666468383092009-10-19T00:27:24.330+13:002009-10-19T00:27:24.330+13:00Thanks for your informative comment Hugh, although...Thanks for your informative comment Hugh, although I am not sure that we are talking about the same thing. Having said that, I suspect you are correct and the problem is the way that this doctrine has been interpreted in Aotearoa NZ. Similarly our extreme approach to the notion of Parliamentary sovereignty.<br /><br />Anonymous, thanks for your comment but I do not see why the US constitution should be seen as the authoritative model. There are many countries where the President does not have much power - Ireland is one. My point here (not my main point which is well covered in my post) is not that we shouldn't become a republic, but that to simply swap a President for the GG will unintentionally shift the balance. These associated issues, such as whether the HoS should be able to veto legislation, for example, needs to be debated alongside this question. <br /><br />As for the 5% threshold, I think we need to either scrap it or remove the provision waiving it if a party wins an electorate seat. It is an anomaly at the moment. I agree on STV for electorate seats and other local elections.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-3964302947182760232009-10-18T16:17:47.080+13:002009-10-18T16:17:47.080+13:00Thanks for a good post Nandor - you are actually d...Thanks for a good post Nandor - you are actually doing the Green Party a real service here, and I hope they pay attention to such constructive criticism.<br /><br />You made the point:<br /><i>"The Queen (acting through the Governor General) can dissolve Parliament or refuse to assent to legislation for example, but she does not act because to do so would put her position in jeopardy. An elected President may feel that they have a democratic mandate to use those powers, causing a huge shift in our careful constitutional balancing act."</i><br /><br />This is the MOST important aspect of the flawed republican debate. Republics like the US have president's who regularly veto laws passed by their Parliaments (Congress & Senate), and they also propose laws which Congress & Senate then have to deal with. Not to mention the US practise of 1 elected person (President) appointing a bunch of unelected 'cabinet ministers' (Secretaries of State) who effectively run the nation; this is dangerously close to what we see in the Auckland Supercity separate Mayoral office and budget. None of this is democratically accountable!<br /><br />Republicans should ask themselves - why have Jim Bolger, Helen Clark and other such ego-obsessed politicians all been so keen on a Kiwi republic? Because they want to BE the president. Hardly a recipe for more enlightened democracy in NZ.<br /><br />Keith should withdraw his bill and focus on getting rid of the 5% MMP threshold and getting STV in electorate elections (both council & govt & DHB). That would improve democracy practically; a republic will not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-37876500976715324892009-10-18T16:00:34.553+13:002009-10-18T16:00:34.553+13:00The idea of the division of sovereignty is not fam...The idea of the division of sovereignty is not familiar in England? I beg to disagree, Nandor - the English monarchy is very familiar with the idea of divided monarchical powers, for instance the system that saw the Kings and Queens of England simultaneously ruling as monarchs of Hanover without unifying executive control - a model that your Hungarian ancestors actively emulated during the Ausgleich of 1867.<br /><br />I also think that you can't say you have nothing against the Windsors when you consider them inbred.DPF:TLDRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06372937855256319716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-24479395597472244512009-10-17T10:25:57.173+13:002009-10-17T10:25:57.173+13:00Thanks Lewis
I agree - and despite my criticism o...Thanks Lewis<br /><br />I agree - and despite my criticism of the bill, Keith is doing a real service in getting the debate up.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-18591259697533334422009-10-17T10:25:56.270+13:002009-10-17T10:25:56.270+13:00Thanks Lewis
I agree - and despite my criticism o...Thanks Lewis<br /><br />I agree - and despite my criticism of the bill, Keith is doing a real service in getting the debate up.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10362796849542826597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2979924328172105187.post-25159153821393039102009-10-16T19:09:37.869+13:002009-10-16T19:09:37.869+13:00Excellent article Nandor. Obviously as Chair of th...Excellent article Nandor. Obviously as Chair of the Republican Movement I'd like there to be a referendum on the issue, preceded by some form of public inquiry. If that means Keith's Bill, then we'll support that - it's currently the only chance New Zealanders will get to discuss the issue in a public forum.Lewis Holdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14732618881212335191noreply@blogger.com